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Ni Karma System

 

Project Updated:
Files Updated: Tue, Apr 7 2009
Supports Game Version: 3.0.9
Category: Boss Encounters
Tags:

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Project Manager: Vuelhering
Additional Authors: No additional authors
Current Version: ver 3.0 rel 04
License: NKS Mostly-open license
Development Site: CurseForge
Avg Daily DL (last 30 days): 11
Downloads Total: 12,492
Favorites: 37
Comments: 98
  • Contests
  • About Ni Karma System
  •  
Ni Karma System



The Ni Karma System (NKS) is a system of loot distribution for tracking raids. It solves many of the issues with DKP, Zero-sum DKP, and other roll-bonus systems which do not work well with WoW, such as inflation, differences between class/non-class items, rewards for learning dungeons, DKP deficit which crushes new raiders, etc.

Specifically:
* Loot received is generally proportional to time put in, but is fair to new raiders.
* Little to no inflation. It tends towards zero-sum.
* Bonuses for learning an encounter don't break the zero-sum property.
* Difficult to break/collude, without it being obvious.
* Items do not get disenchanted from point competition between players.
* Separate databases for different dungeons, if desired
* System "feels" fair to the attendees. (see poll results below)

NKS is a roll bonus system, where you gather points for raid attendance which can be added to a /roll 100. It specifically deals with WoW's class items vs non-class items issues, inflation, and different dungeon databases. This system was designed specifically to work with WoW, without too much bookkeeping.

The system can be tracked using pen and paper, but Mavios of Icecrown wrote a plugin which makes it even easier. Included is a php website script to display results, too!

The full description of the system is included, plus an html tutorial, plus an overview of other loot systems which shows why this one was created. Once you understand the system, it's pretty straightforward.

If you have implementation issues or questions, I will try to answer them. But please read the description in the download, carefully, before asking.

--
I polled the raiders in my guild and got these results. The vast majority think it works well, some have minor issues with it, and a couple don't like it at all. That is about the best you can hope for in a loot distribution system, and I've made some tweaks to try to improve issues with fairness.

Q: How do you like the Karma system?
[ 43 ] [56.58%] It works very well, esp when the loot list is updated, and with the karma cutoff of 70/100.
[ 15 ] [19.74%] It works very well, but I don't understand it. I just declare and occasionally get epix.
[ 13 ] [17.11%] It works okay, but I don't like some parts such as the karma cutoff, loot list, fairness, etc.
[ 2 ] [2.63%] I think it's unfair/biased/broken/etc.
[ 3 ] [3.95%] I don't raid, but I really like to vote.
Total Votes: 76


One of the known issues is the database is stored locally on the raid leader's computer (and uploaded to the webserver). When using multiple raid leaders, this becomes an issue of coordination. Although I haven't yet tested it, you might find this merger app useful.

  • Downloads (4)
  •  
File Name Release Type Game Version Downloads Date
Addon Curse.com Beta 2.3.3 0 9/29/2008
  File Name Release Type Game Version Downloads Date  
  Ni Karma System ver 3.0 rel 04 Beta 3.0.9 1,197 4/7/2009
  Ni Karma System ver 3.0 rel 02 Release 3.0.9 1,598 3/14/2009
  Ni Karma System ver 3.0 rel 01 Release 3.0.2 990 10/26/2008
  Ni Karma System Description only Release 1.12.0 169 11/2/2006
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  • Is it possible to use this for a free guildomatic website? The php script, how?

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  • ne1 know why wow says its out of date?

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  • Hey Guys,

    Great system and addon. However...and I see it is mentioned above....there is the issue of more than 1 raid been run simultaneously. I have tried to have a look at the "merger tool" above but the link seems to be broken. Is there anyway that this can be accomplished or do I have to go and write something myself?

    Thanx

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  • I haven't used the compact command in a while, but the purpose is to do exactly that... it takes an argument of the number of days. Every "/km add" older than that argument will be compacted into a single entry.

    Before running it, back up your database. Upload it and see if it looks right. Again, I haven't tested it in a long time, but it did work at one point :)

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  • hawc51 said 

    Thanks Vuelhering, I was able to run the command and managed not to cause any damage :)

    If you every need anyone to test things, I'm very good at breaking them :)

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  • Okay, Hawc51, I tested the compact command and it appears to still work.

    I used
    /km compact 60

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  • hawc51 said 

    Vuelhering, I'm a long time user of the Ni Karma system and have loved it and it's concept since before we even started using it as a guild. So thank you for maintaining this wonderful system.

    With that said, I have a question for you regarding the COMPACT command? I'm not able to find any documentation of that specific option and I am hoping that I can use it to compact our old Tier7 karma list in to a much smaller than the 1mb database it's currently running. We now have a Tier 8 database and I want to save the lifetime karma from Tier 7 (our system is that at every new tier, we do a 'total lifetime / 10' (that 10 man go up as Karma lifetimes go up) to encourage people to spend their karma at the close of an old tier, still give that edge to guild veterans versus new players, and yet shrink the playing field so that 500pt gaps in karma become single item advantages.

    Can you possibly help me to work with the Compact command? I'm hesitant because I've sadly had to rebuild our database by hand many times...

    I am very much looking forward to a GUI for this mod :)

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  • Fixed issues with remote commands with 3.0r04

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  • Lol, forgot to update the version when you hover over the addon in the login screen. But it's 3.0 rel 03, not rel 02.

    I do recommend people install the beta. Back up your database, of course.

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  • This is a great mod. A friend runs weekly pugs and wanted to be able to reward long time attendees without giving them too much of an edge over newcomers.

    We ended up setting min/max class deductions to zero, and rounding to 1. We award 1 point per boss kill, so a full clear of Naxx only gives you +15 to your roll if you win nothing.

    The really nice part is that the addon is completely in game, and maintains it's own database regardless of what guild someone in the raid happens to be from. It's nice because as a pug the entire roster can change from week to week.

    My only request is that the mod ignore additional rolls beyond the first. Right now if someone rolls a second time, the mod keeps track of the most recent roll. This is the worst possible behavior as someone could be sneaky and just re-roll to get a higher number.

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  • The karma master will see a note in chat if anyone rerolls. I might have introduced a bug which prevented this behavior in a previous release, but I know 3.0r02 works.

    I think I'll make it bright orange or red, to draw attention to it.

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  • There is a beta version up at http://www.knights-who-say-ni.com/NKS

    The biggest thing this did was make it load on demand. It requires you to install two addons... one small one that will load the main one if necessary.

    When the karma file starts getting pretty big, it can slow down zoning by a few seconds. Normally, it's not an issue... but no reason to have it on all the time if you're not using it.

    It will auto-load when you zone into a lockout raid instance. You can also disable this functionality if desired.

    I expect to have an actual configuration screen sometime soon... I just hate dealing with the xml.

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  • Halbie13 said 

    We are currently trying to modify this system in 2 ways.
    1. We want to set a Karma Ceiling at 100 points
    2. We only want a roller who uses their bonus to have half of the bonuse added to their roll, opposed to all of it

    Would this work for the karma ceiling?

    KarmaDefaults["MAX_KARMA_PLAYER"] = 100;

    How would we do the other task of limiting the karma towards the roll?

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  • Halbie13 said 

    On further review, One of my guildies came up with the ceiling of a 100 fix

    Code:

    if (KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["points"] + kvalue > 100) then
    KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["points"] = 100;
    else
    KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["points"] = KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["points"] + kvalue;
    end

    -- Add to lifetime karma: all point add/subtracts, but not item subtracts (spending karma)

    if (KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["lifetime"] + kvalue > 100) then
    KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["lifetime"] = 100;
    else
    if (ktype == "P") then
    KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["lifetime"] = KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["lifetime"] + kvalue;
    end
    end

    I added the message to the player portion

    Create a variable in Localization.lua

    KMSG.MaxedOut= "You are maxed on Karma; Use it or lose it!"

    Add to Ni_Karma.lua
    " This script should be added to the message portion of the function Karma_Mod_Player"

    -- Notify self and the player
    local addsub = KMSG.ADDED;
    if (kvalue < 0) then
    addsub = KMSG.DEDUCTED;
    kvalue = abs(kvalue);
    if (kvalue = 100) then
    addsub = KMSG.MaxedOut;
    kvalue = abs(kvalue)
    else
    KarmaList[Raid_Name][kplayer]["lastadd"] = date();
    end

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  • The idea of having only half the bonus added to the roll can be fixed by just giving out less karma. You should shoot for 10-20 karma per night, and that will make it worth a lot more. This will, however, skew things towards those with lower karma.

    IMHO, there is not an issue with hoarding karma. If someone saves up 1000 and wins 3 items, they'll have 125 left. And if they saved that much, they DESERVE to win 3 items in a row. This system encourages people to spend it, and if they don't they only hurt themselves. (I intentionally did not build in a max.)

    You should probably just give out less karma. That will make it a bit more precious. If you're having issues of people with high karma not rolling on upgrades due to the cost, you can add a small minimum value for all items in the options (/km option show).

    You definitely do not want to muck with the ["lifetime"] karma. This is simply a record to show "who's been coming the longest?", and has no effect on rolls. It's ONLY used by the karma.php website script.

    The first part of your mod will work to set a max of 100, but you should consider what I wrote above. Hoarding is generally not an issue in this system.

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  • New version uploading, and is mirrored at http://www.knights-who-say-ni.com/NKS .

    It should handle german clients (someone please test it :-), and deathknights. /km show deathknight or /km show dk should work.

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  • Tziva said 

    Help! My raid leader just sent me his LUA to play master looter tonight while he is gone (I ran the Ni Karma in BC)... and I get an "outdated database" error. Regardless of which option I pick, it won't load the karma file (yes, I am typing the name correct down to the case). We had this problem once before and I don't remember how we fixed. Any one have any ideas?

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  • Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

    That can occur when both people are running different versions. There might be a bug there, though, so I'll double-check.

    If you really want to try breaking things, make a backup and within the game, try:
    /run KarmaConfig["DATAVERSION"] = 1
    but I can't guarantee this won't completely hose everything.

    I would first verify that you placed the Ni_Karma.lua saved variables file in the SavedVariables directory properly, in [wowdir]/WTF/Account/[account]/SavedVariables/Ni_Karma.lua. If you open that file, it should have a very obvious format (like like a bunch of variables being set), and not have a big notice at the top saying who wrote it.

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  • i created a Macro to send the bonus and nobonus message to the Lootmaster with simple left and right Klick on the Macro button

    /script for i=1,40 do local n,_,_,_,_,_,_,_,_,_,ML=GetRaidRosterInfo(i);if ML and GetMouseButtonClicked() == "LeftButton" then SendChatMessage("bonus", "WHISPER", nil, n);elseif ML then SendChatMessage("nobonus", "WHISPER", nil, n);end;end;

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  • That's pretty cool.

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