Bring it on lol. as a DPS/Tank i fear tht i might be called as a tank. but tht is for my luck tht i equiped to strength and armur penetration

Thank you..I think.  Honestly this is a good example of Blizzard writing the game around our inability to play the class correctly.  Im a warrior tank,  that boasts a lot of block rating and a fair amount of parry.  This is gonna be a wake up call for all the warriors I have seen in there gettin progression stackin Dodge gear and gems capitalizing on Shield specialization to get rage and what not and forgetting they need to mitigate damage as well, just like we used to have to in the old days.  On another note, we're called TANKS and not ninjitsu ballerinas for a reason. Damage incoming..HANDLE IT.  Building an avoidance set is smoetime useful but if you're anything but a Druid, you shouldn't be relying on you avoidance set to get you through everything.  Someone mentioned mitigation is much more reliable.  We all should have had a good mitigation set.  Start hunting down offset pieces cuz especially for warrior T9,  Block rating is gonna be hard to come by.

also interesting..

damage reduction being so much more reliable than damage avoidance, I see this being a very good change.

I dunno if anyone has payed attention to this or not...

But Blizzard (correct me if I'm wrong) is intending to NEVER let avoidance go this high again in Cataclysm. So now would be a good time to get used to it. I'm sure this is gonna be balanced by making the bosses do less damage per hit.

@DonDan: "Ideally, tanks would be receiving a relatively constant stream of damage over time."

I didn't go to the source thread, but this statement implies that accompanying the dodge nerf aura will be a reduction in the amounts that bosses DO hit for.

GD it... The entire reason I'm still playing is so I can tank Arthas on my druid... now... Blizzard just spit in my face and told me to F Off, Arthas is for paladins and warriors.

@Shirvington: Where are you seeing indications that they'll simultaneously reduce the amount of damage bosses hit for? It would make sense, but do you have a source?

As far as paladin and warrior tanking goes, dodge is by far the biggest avoidance stat, in terms of value; As for druid, it's their only avoidance.

Although druids are getting hit really hard by this, they still have by far the highest mitigation of any tanking class, and should NOT be stacking stamina ever for melee-heavy fights. After this debuff, well-geared bear tanks will still have around 20% dodge, which is slightly lower than what other tanks will have for avoidance (not including block, which is a horrible main tank stat for S&B tanks).

As a paladin tank, I'm pretty bent out of shape about this, considering I just overhauled my tanking set for pure avoidance for GC.

One solution would be making armor stacking easier, or implementing trinkets and enchants that reduce damage taken by a fixed percentage. I can see how this would get really ridiculous in PvP, but it's better than gimping your main tanks so that they have to regear completely.

This debuff ruins the fun of testing out different tanking setups to help you perform better; Adding magic damage to melee attacks could be one solution, but instead they decide to kill one of the better scaling tanking attributes, because some players have worked for days and days to manipulate their avoidance so that they could be effective tanks.

They've already nerfed dodge by adding diminishing returns in, and then by reducing the percentage per point of dodge rating; removing a static 20% is just ridiculous. Blizzard already tried reworking stats so that none were wasted, but isn't this just making the problem worse?

This is almost identical to the change in Sunwell Plateau with Sunwell Radiance. After a while, Sunwell Radiance was removed after a major itemization shift in tanking gear. I've noticed with the introduction of 3.2, that a lot of rings, necks and weapons have additional armor on them; while this change makes me happy, it also scares me a little bit that we'll have to rely on armor stacking (something which I find very difficult as a protection paladin, as I mainly stack additional stamina), which may be difficult, because of the lack of straight +armor gems(excluding +agility gems, because the 2 armor per point scales horrifically, if you're not devoted 100%).

Thelek - 80 Protection Paladin

@DonDan: What I'm getting is that while they are reducing dodge, they will also be reducing the damage that bosses hit for, so they will hit more often, but for less, resulting in more even, less "spikey" damage.

I'm thinking that with this debuff.. the bosses should go less damage per hit.

ok so now healers have to spam BIG heal for whole fight and not go oom, GL to the holy light'ing pallies,  healing wave shamanans (maybe back to the old days), kinda unbalences the healing side of things, cough displine priests will clearly be the best (dmg absortion and mana incomes) and druids hots will great for steady healing (with tree regen)

how about istead of taking the easiest path blizzard put some though into things a little more, rattle the hampster cage and THINK, (instead of lets just do a global debuff cause its the easiest thing to do)

I will admit tanks hp does spike in wotlk but this is not the answer. Tanks tanking continuous dmg at high dmg lvls is a healer strain, AOE dmg in wotlk is already increased (which i think is good) but cmon

I am not saying these are good ideas but heres a few i can pull out of my ***

1.add more active! dmg reducing ablities in your new tanking talents maybe that react differently to diff damage types

2. overall add a castbar full of spells that are dungeon specific, not something stupid like vehicle mounting with spells of there own, like a whole bar. Hell then even dps could use reduction abilites on tanks etc, take it to a whole new level

Personally I have played since release, ups & downs considered but there is a difference between make the game for casual play and lobotomizing it, do you realise only about 5 spells are actually used during a fight.

Not exaclty on topic but it fits the implementation issue.

I am sure that Blizzard (a mightly billion dollar income per month) can do better than a click 5 button game, remember once people actually had to be good as well as attend the raid

My2Cents

Pieterisme

(hardcore raider)

(retired to causal raider)

(playing since since wow's realease)

I experianced this Debuff last night. I went to the crapper around 2am,

its 46 degrees outside and I had left the window open. Buuurrrrrrr my runed orbs transmuted to frozen orbs

Don't druids have more dodge than other tanks?

At any rate, won't nerfing one defensive stat for tanks affect some tanks more than others? Won't this just encourage groups to take some classes of tanks and not others? Also, I don't quite get how adding MORE damage reduces the "spikey-ness" or allows Healers to heal _more_ effectively. If tanks could be killed w/ one or two shots before, what will be the effect of those shots on top of greater over-all damage? And finally, won't this mean that healers have to use their bigger, HoT spells all the time in case those spikes hit on top of the damage they're already healing from? Meaning that healers who have more of this kind of spell will also be preferred over other healers? (I'm not a healer, so I could be wrong about that.)

It just seems like this will encourage taking the class, not the player, which is the opposite of WotLK's supposed mantra.

GG Druids you cant even tank ICC now... poor druids :(